18 wrzesień 2021, 01:03:34


Mogą występować problemy z wysyłaniem maili z forum!

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Zaczęty przez b.p., 21 lipiec 2013, 01:13:07

Leon Kennedy



29 lipiec 2015, 20:11:06 #452 Ostatnia edycja: 30 lipiec 2015, 00:32:58 by Q
Wraz z nowym numerem Empire pojawi?o si? kilka nowych informacji dotycz?cych filmu:


Batman od 20-lat dzia?a w Gotham i te? nie bez powodu jego sprz?t ma ?lady licznych walk.

Artyku? z Empire
The Creators of Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice do not refer to their new movie as a sequel, or an episode or the next phase. They call it an expansion.
There had been no doubt that Man of Steel was the start of something. Did you spot those cunningly placed Easter eggs? Logos for Lexcorp and Wayne Industries, the acknowledgement of a world bigger than simply Smallville and Metropolis. But when it came to it, sitting down to imagine where their newly rebooted and suited Superman franchise might go next...well this happened

Think of this as our pre-credits sequence. A boardroom. Day. Possibly the very boardroom Empire is currently sitting opposite director Zack Snyder. The Snyder brain trust is deep in meeting about who might serve as the villain in the second Superman movie. They consider Brainiac, what they might do with Lex Luthor, all are determined it couldn't be another alien-invasion movie.
Then the director just puts this out there...
"We should put Batman in the second movie" Says Snyder. reliving the historic moment.
"Actually, I think the first thing we mentioned was the movie would end with some kryptonite being delivered to Wayne Manor. Da-Dah! Everyone was like 'Oh S#$T!"

Part 2:
What is it about this showdown that stirs such excitement? The two most legendary superheroes going Batmano a Supermano. The comic books have tried the dust-up/team-up from all angles (most effectivelyas aging titans in Frank Miller's hugely influential The Dark Knight Returns). In Will Smith's post apocalyptic hit I Am Legend, a deserted times square displays a Batman VS Superman hoarding - an in-joke referring to a previous Warner Bros. attempt to pit the two heroes against one another on the big screen. There were plans in Tim Burton's aborted Superman Lives to have Michael Keaton's Dark Knight gaze upon Nicholas Cage's kryptonian hero from the rooftops.
"Once you say it out loud, you can't put it back in the box" Snyder laughs: good ideas, really good ideas are like genies "It started to evolve from there, to the point where we said, "The bad guy, in a way, is Batman..."

Part 3:
Okay, DC is about to happen in a really, really big way. A Marvel-sized way, but let's not get too caught up in the whole Marvel V DC thing just yet. Leastways, from that Batman epiphany has sprung an extended universe (commonly: EU) based upon the catalogue of Marvel's rival comic-book house, Detective Comics (commonly: DC). A many limbed saga of superheroes and super villains branching forth from Justice League, the supergroup of heavy hitters led by, yes siree, Batman and Superman (at some point it's safe to assume they have to set aside their differences and bro up).
"What we are doing is ground-up all the way." Stresses Snyder. "It's one giant story."

Indeed if you want the narrative ground zero for their exponential epic, it is when Superman switches on the scout ship in Man of Steel. The same thing Zod saw, other beings saw. Other beings like Aquaman and Wonder Woman. A world began to stir...

Part 4:
Snyder's personal headquarters are concealed in a quiet corner of a leafy LA suburb Pasadena - a suit of offices with a spare, warehousey vibe. In reception, the latest DC editions of Red Lanterns, Constantine, Supergirl et al lie in neat rows alongside Produced By magazine and Variety. Only the background subwoofer rumble of closely scrutinised scenes tells you that a major film is being nudged towards completion.
Somwhere deep in the Snyder-Cave is a whiteboard upon which the entire DC EU is sketched out.
"Kind of a timeline of what every movie is" Says producer Debroah Snyder "where it is going, and where the films fit in relation to each other."
The inner circle is comprised of Snyder, Deborah Snyder, producer Chuck Roven (who helped steer the Dark Knight trilogy to greatness), screenwriter Chris Terrio (who has plotted the throughline from BvS inot back to back JL movies) and Geoff Johns, Chief Creative Officer at DC Comics, keeper of the lore.
"The first thing we had was the Justice League concept." says Snyder. "The other movies support that. That is our WW, our Aquaman. They have their own creative concepts that support them, but they do serve Justice League in the coming together of those heroes."
It's the inverse of Avengers. We will meet Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman first in BvS, and then her origin will fleshed out in Patty Jenkin's stand alone Wonder Woman movie. We will meet Jason Momoa's Aquaman properly in Justi8ce League - he gets an elusive introduction in BvS ("You'll understand he exists." teases Snyder) - before tackling his own adventure.

Part 5:
"I want the other directors of the other films to be able to stretch their legs and do what they want, but at the same there is a big interconnected universe." Snyder remains the creative heart of the enterprise, the facilitator of a coherent DC style; indeed the Brainiac of the EU. "I've given everyone amazing access to our story, to me, and what we are doing. All the films have like minded conceptual jumping-off points"
No one is about to devise a hilarious romantic comedy featuring Cyborg.

"We call it the sandbox" says Chuck Roven "It has borders around it, but everyone gets to play in the sandbox. On Suicide Squad, David Ayer has a lot of specific control over his area of the sandbox. Even if he crosses the line a little bit, we see if we can push our boundaries back a little"

Part 6:
Logistically is is staggering. As BvS gains it's coat of special effrects, and the various stages of editing, scoring, grading and sound mixing are completed, Deborah Snyder, along with Roven, is watching over a sandbox that stretches around the world. Jenkins is in London prepping Wonder Woman, which will shoot their this Autumn. Suicide Squad, already shooting in Toronto, will shoot through to September.
"I do watch the dailies" She promises, enthusing about the films "street quality". They are already doing a soft prep for The Justice League, which will begin shooting in the spring, and overseeing the script for Aquaman, which James Wan will direct. Kirk Johnstad, Snyder's writing partner on 300, is fathoming(sorry) how the atlantean king will fit into their real world ethos. Deborah Snyder raises her eyes to the ceiling, shuffling through a comic book rack in her brain "and we have Flash we are working on too"

Part 7:
There was a moment during the casting of Man of Steel when they knew they had their man.It's dinner party material now, how Henry Cavill strode out for his screen test in Christopher Reeve's old Superman suit and no one laughed. He felt so emphatic, so real. Well Ben Affleck had been immersing himself in the comic books and had seen an image of Bruce Wayne "I need my hair to look like this" he informed his filmmakers, brandishing the comic book in question.
"I remember not being too sure." admits Deborah Snyder. Later she and Zack were in Micvhegan busily readying the shoot, with Affleck still in LA taking meetings with head of hair Chase Heard. A photo arrived of the hair. "It was perfect - he looked like Bruce Wayne." The producer was delighted to be proved wrong. "It was that moment."Oh we gotta do this"
Truthfully, it's nothing drastic. Affleck wears a wig in the movie that makes concrete Wayne's age and experience, It instantly made him their Bruce/Batman; older than ever before.
"We are playing him 45 or 46" Snyder explains. "He's been Batman for 20 years. All that history is there. Was there a Robin at one time? Possibly"

Part 8:
Suicide Squad is a key crossover film in this respect. Jared Leto's Joker is the Affleck-Batman Joker. As Snyder confirms, Batman's had a relationship with the Joker, Harley Quinn, all the Belle Reve reprobates in Ayer's inverted team-up movie. He put those guys in prison. There have been sightings of Batman on their Toronto set. You can imagine that somewhere out there is a Riddler, a Penguin and a Two Face. A rebooted Catwoman...

"We want to assume that Batman has reached this point in his life and career as a superhero and Superman represents a philosophical change" Says Snyder "He is a paradigm shift for Batman."Ive been fighting criminals all my life, trying to find justice, and now I am confronted with a concept that is transcendent to me' In the face of Superman, a man robbing a bank doesnt matter."

Part 9:
We have arrived at the heart if the proposition: the why of the V. Batman witnessed the devastation of Metropolis (they call it the Black Zero Event) and fears Superman is a beacon for aliens like Zod, bent on destruction. To his mind this only gets worse. "He has lost those near and dear to him" says Roven, hinting at a more immediate motivation "and not necessarily from old age or disease." There are striking shots in the recent trailer of a Wayne Enterprises skyscraper being levelled.

Part 10:
How can we even know Superman/ We live by his good graces. We make the assumption that he will always be good and never turn on us...can we trust him? These are themes similar to those that orbited Superman-satire Doctor Manhatten in Snyder's Watchmen. Superhero or God?
"He's having a crisis of conscience." says Snyder of his Dark Knight: "Am I really just a vigilante who stalks the alleys of Gotham. it's rich stuff that he deals with. Ben does an amazing job."

a brief flashback to the set June 2014. Ben Affleck squinting into the Michigan sunshine. The air a blizzard of dust. The cowl covers Bruce Wayne's good looks,but curiously, Batman is wearing a spaghetti western-style duster coat and carries a machine gun.
"Initially I thought I'm older and it doesnt seem like the right fit for me." Affleck says, as wind machines are carefully repositioned. "The Zack pitched me this concept for this older, more broken, kind of F'd up Batman. It was something we hadn't seen."
He likens the role to Hamlet or James Bond. Hardy perennials that thrive under different conditions. Anyway this isnt a Batman movie, Affleck insists. It's Batman v Superman. "We have seen that Batman is willing to cross the line in order to protect people." he elaborates "That vigilanteism has been part of the character all along and we are tapping into that mentality when faced by something as potentially deadly as Superman."

Snyder loves his size: at six-four in that suit, Affleck is a giant. "There is just this gravitas to him. He's operatic."

Part 11:
Superman, for his part, is not convinced Batman is an entirely healthy concept either. This vigilante who is judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one black suit?

Roven explains that their Superman/Clark Kent "is a natural extension of what happened in Man of Steel." That dilemma of where he belongs hasnt gone away. He is still troubled.
"In this movie, everyone is split into different directions as to how they feel about this alien." Cavill says "Some people love him, some hate him. Other people fear him. Is he a tyrant?" It's the human outlook on Superman, and that includes Lex and Batman, which is why such a major thing happens."

He means escalation. The big showdown. This almighty face-off that encouraged filmmakers not to leap straight into The Justice League. How it becomes a fair fight is as much about Batman's ingenuity as Superman's power. Think Bat-armor. Think Lex Luthor. Think Kryptonite being delivered to Wayne Manor.

Which makes this a paradigm shift for an audience naturally rooting for Batman. "It's a point of view thing" Snyder responds, suggesting Batman is and isnt the bad guy. "That is why Dawn of Justice is the full title. What it does is allow us to start this conversation. That is where Wonder Woman came from in the movie."

Part 12:
Deborah Snyder admits she cried when Gadot first walked onto the set as Wonder Woman. It was another of those moments. Gadot had blown them away in her audition. They were down to a list of five, each filming a scene with Affleck. But Gadot somehow was Wonder Woman. "She is this feminist icon." says the producer proudly of the character "It is so timely, gender has been a hot topic." Plus a fine opportunity to puncture some testosterone-fueled egos. "Not just the men" she laughs "but how ridiculous the situation is."

Vitally they havent treated her action scenes any differently to the men's. She may fight in her own style, but she is just as intense and brutal. Snyder notes that Wonder Woman (aka Diana Prince) is a key catalyst in shifting the story towards The Justice League.

Part 13:
and let us not forget Luthor, a young man with a plan, as assayed by the intriguing choice of Jesse Eisenberg. Think of this as a post-credits sting for a forthcoming issue with more from Lex, Clark, Bruce, Diana, Zack, Deborah, Chuck, Metropolis and Gotham.
WB is still game for more solo outings for the grand dames of DC. Affleck along with Geoff Johns is writing a definitively Batman movie that he will direct and star in.
which redoubles the point that Snyder hasn't made a Batman movie. "If it was a Batman movie it would be a much more difficult proposition" he adds "because of how good Chris' movies are."

Ah yes, the elephant in the conference room: executive producer Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. Snyder admits Nolan was taken aback when he revealed he wanted to reinterpret Batman alongside Superman, but is fully supportive.
"We live in gratitude to those movies" Snyder urges "Chris set a tone for the DSC Universe and separated us from Marvel in a great way. We are the legacy of those movies"
Stylistically, at least, that makes them prequels.

?ród?o: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=31906387&postcount=549
What was the point of all those push-ups if you can't even lift a bloody log?

Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war)


Cytuj"The batsuit is a complete 180 degree turn from the previous film incarnations — our Batman's power comes from his incredible physical strength and fighting skills, not from armor."

Czyli jednak kostium jest z materiału, a nie ochronny? No dla mnie te tłumaczenie jest dość śmieszne... "Siła Batmana pochodzi z jego siły fizycznej"... Nawet największe mięśnie nie powstrzymają kuli :P Nawet jakby wyglądał jak Dwayne The Rock Johnson, kuloodporny nie będzie. Nadal więc nonsensem dla mnie jest, że miliarder lata w piżamie i nie potrafi sobie załatwić kuloodpornego kostiumu.


A dla mnie istotniejsze jest, żeby dobrze wyglądał. Film jest o bohaterze komiksowym, więc ma prawo rozmijać się z logiką w niektórych rzeczach. Zwłaszcza, że nie jest to film "realistyczny" jak u Nolana, tylko posiadający już całą gammę nierzeczywistych elementów. Widocznie ten Batman, niczym Neo, potrafi "unikać kul" ;)
Powiedzieli mi, że nie da się tego zrobić. Odpowiedziałem maniakalnym śmiechem.


To, że stój wygląda jak z materiału nie musi oznaczać, że taki jest i że nie jest kuloodporny. Istnieją koszule, które mogą zatrzymać pociski 9mm, więc nie jest to aż tak samobójcza misja.
What was the point of all those push-ups if you can't even lift a bloody log?

Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war)


To, że kostium tak wygląda tego nie oznacza, ale wypowiedź ludzi pracujących przy nim już to sugerują. Dlatego do tej pory trochę im to darowałem, ale teraz zaczyna to trochę irytować, że nie pomyśleli o tak istotnym elemencie i zaakcentowaniu tak istotnej różnicy między Batmanem, a Supermanem. Mianowicie takiej, że Superman może chodzić w piżamie, a Batman nie.

Co do omijania się z logiką... jedna rzecz to posiadać elementy fikcyjne, których u nas nie ma i można stworzyć w okół tego jakąkolwiek mitologię (taką jak kosmici z supermocami), a druga robić głupoty z rzeczy, które istnieją w naszym świecie. Mamy zwykłych ludzi na naszej planecie, i nie, mięśnie nie zatrzymują kul :P

No i dla mnie wygląd ma drugorzędne znaczenie... Gotham to nie rewia mody :P Funkcjonalność jest znacznie ważniejsza, tym bardziej, że ma wpływ na sam odbiór postaci. Bez niej Batman prezentuje się śmiesznie, w sam raz na Silver Age, albo po prostu idiotycznie.


Właśnie tego chcą fani zwykłego kostiumu nietoperza a nie metalowej zbroi , co z tego że mija się to z logiką  naszego świata? Osobiście oczekuje pełni komiksowego podejścia do sprawy


Nie mówiłem nic o metalowej zbroi. Ale o chociaż jakiejś ochronie.

No i widzisz, ja osobiście oczekuję czegoś więcej niż bezmyślnego podejścia. Wolę jak mogę uwierzyć w to co widzę na ekranie. W przeciwnym razie kompletnie się wyłączam. Ty może masz inaczej.


Nie tylko ja tak sądzę na wielu forach główne zarzuty podawane przez fanów  idą w kierunku  zbyt realistycznego  podejścia do  bohaterów oraz przesadzonego mroku. Dla mnie idealnym serialem co w pełni pokazuje to co czym być powinna być adaptacja komiksu jest serial The Flash gdzie mamy do czynienia z idealnym balansowaniem między kiczem a całkiem poważnym dramatem  i co najważniejsze nie wstydzi się że jest on serialem na podstawie  komiksu  i sprzedaje nam te wszystkie głupoty i jednocześnie nie robić z widza idioty


24 październik 2015, 21:12:26 #460 Ostatnia edycja: 24 październik 2015, 21:19:25 by LelekPL
Nigdzie nie pisałem, że jesteś jedyny. Dobrze wiem o tym internetowym trendzie "za mhroczno", czyli ludzi którzy chcieliby, aby każdy bohater był jak u Marvela, czyli cukierkowy i z przymrużeniem oka. Czasami to działa, w przypadku niektórych bohaterów i odpowiedniej konwencji, ale czasami wręcz męczy.

Ja wolę mrok, powagę i bardziej wiarygodne podejście. I tak też według mnie najlepiej wypada Batman. To co wolą inni nie przekona mnie do innej opinii na ten temat. Na całe szczęście BvS w większości tego co widziałem spełnia moje warunki, no ale ten nieszczęsny kostium niestety się z nimi kłóci.

Więc ta dyskusja na zasadzie, "ja mam inne preferencje" nie ma dalszego sensu, bo nic nie wnosi. Bo chyba Twoim celem nie jest przekonanie mnie, że tak naprawdę mam inną opinię niż tą którą mówię, że mam? :P Ani ja Ciebie nie przekonam (i nie miałem takiego zamiaru), ani Ty mnie.

The Dream

W komiksie Dark Victory jest wspomniane, że Batman pod "piżamą" nosi kamizelkę kuloodporną. Takie rozwiązanie byłoby OK, ale pewnie nie będzie zastosowane w filmie.
Jak już powiedziałem, bardzo proszę o zwrot moich czerwonych kozaków.


Takie wytłumaczenie byłoby wystarczające, ale po ich dotychczasowych wypowiedziach, też w nie wątpię.

Leon Kennedy


Raczej nie wiele.

SupermanHomePage skontaktowało się z osobą pracującą przy filmie, która stwierdziła że ta "recenzja" to fake.

What was the point of all those push-ups if you can't even lift a bloody log?

Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, prepare for war)